This meme, helpfully supplied by an atheist faith community, left me puzzled.
The viewpoint, from the creator of the animated TV shows Family Guy, American Dad and The Cleveland Show, sets up an adversarial relationship between faith and knowledge.
So let’s ask the question: are faith and knowledge compatible? Does one have to “win” over the other?
Consider the words from thoughtful people of faith:
Blogger Tom Gilson (ThinkingChristian.net) says “belief doesn’t arrive out of thin air, or wishful thinking, or fear, or hopefulness, or (especially) pretending. There is a strong knowledge connection there.”
The website BibleAsk.org goes even further, stating “There is no such thing as ‘blind’ faith. Genuine faith is built on facts presented to the mind. Faith and knowledge are never in contradiction. Knowledge always comes before faith, and where there is no knowledge there can be no faith. Without knowledge, it is impossible to have faith.”
The point here is that thoughtful followers of Jesus of Nazareth (who many people believe is the Son of God) have no interest in the either-or relationship between faith and knowledge advanced by Seth MacFarlane and others. And they’re backed up by the ancient writers and prophets. Chew on these examples:
- Wise people want to learn more, so they listen closely to gain knowledge.
- Intelligent people want more knowledge, but fools only want more nonsense.
- Drinking from the beautiful chalice of knowledge is better than adorning oneself with gold and rare gems.
Most Jesus followers take these words seriously. In fact, some of those Jesus followers, like author and geneticist Francis S. Collins, are among the most knowledgeable in the world and they work to advance knowledge, not hinder it. You can read about just a few of these people here: https://wp.me/p2wzRb-3o.
So that’s the good news. You can accept God’s gift of His Son — whose sacrificial death and amazing resurrection makes up for all the wrong things we’ve done and the right things we’ve failed to do — and also advance the cause of knowledge. Both are utterly, beautifully compatible.
Interesting in knowing more about Jesus and how He can make you into the person God intends you to be? Yes or no, post your thoughts below and let’s have a conversation.
Frank's Cottage 
I believe the most important thing here is for you to actually define exactly what you mean by faith.
That way we can more than likely have meaningful dialogue.
So, Frank, please will you state what you mean when you use the word faith.
Thanks.
Thanks for your comment. Let me back up the conversation to where it should really start: what do you think Seth MacFarlane means by “faith”?
You already stated what you think he means:
The viewpoint, … sets up an adversarial relationship between faith and knowledge.
So you have seem to have interpreted his words to imply that faith is not knowledge.
Would this be an accurate interpretation of how you approach faith?
Thanks for your comment. I think, by reading the blog, it’s pretty easy to see my take on faith. I’m still wondering, however, what you think Seth MacFarlane means by “faith”. The content of the blog is a direct response to the meme.
Belief with no supportable evidence.
Is this how you see your faith?
Please answer my question and I’ll be happy to answer yours. Thanks.
I thought I did.
I think he means belief in something with no supportable evidence.
Ah. Thank you. That’s not my take on faith. There’s all kinds of evidence to support belief in Jesus Christ; if there wasn’t, I wouldn’t be a Christ follower.
Anyone interested in that evidence can visit http://carm.org/ or https://www.reasonablefaith.org/.
In that case, would you be prepared to tell me exactly the reason why you became a Christian and what was the evidence that convinced you?
I was angry. Well, I wasn’t just angry. I was spittin’ mad. Over what doesn’t matter. We all have things that bring us to the boiling point.
But I spent the better part of five years near the boiling point and it was all directed at God. So I didn’t pray. I didn’t go to church. In fact, I had nothing to do with spirituality. Period.
But that’s a long time to be mad. And where does it get you? Nowhere. It drains your energy and can make you cynical and hope-less. That’s certainly what being angry did to me. As a result, I didn’t particularly like me and suspect some others didn’t, either.
Finally, the anger began to fade into something resembling indifference. So I decided to do something about it. Setting aside the the thing I could not — and likely will not, in this life — understand, I took the monumental step of praying on an Alberta ski lift with a Christian friend.
It certainly wasn’t a loving prayer; in fact, it sounded a lot more like the opening salvo in contract negotiations. Basically I told God ‘let’s see if we can find a way to get along’.
Doesn’t sound like much, does it? I opened the door, but barely. Still, that was all God needed. Within minutes of praying I began to feel a lightness on my heart. Not only was that a surprise, it was a relief after so many years of having a metaphorical boulder squashing my soul. And it’s only progressed from there.
I was surprised again to realize that as time went on, God had been saving all those years of unwanted love for me. And when I finally opened up to Him, He showered me with that love. It was a downpour, a monsoon of delight and passion for me, despite all my flaws. I was awestruck and amazed. So I couldn’t help but love Him back with the same depth of emotion.
God also led me to new, and most importantly, credible understanding of what He did through the death and resurrection of His son Jesus Christ.
And so I did what I so long thought I would never, ever do: I became a Christian.
What have I learned from all this? The thing that sticks out most is the reality that we must let God BE God. That means we must accept and become comfortable with the mystery of Him — the fact there are things we fragile, imperfect humans can never hope to understand during our time on planet Earth.
This isn’t easy to do. My own experience is glow-in-the-dark proof. But think of it this way: Would you really WANT to understand everything about our creator? He wouldn’t be much of a God then, would he?
For me, once the notion of living in God’s mystery became acceptable, I began to rejoice in it, to realize this is a vital part of taking a step of faith.
Well, yes, we all get angry over things. This is part of being human.
To spend so long being angry suggests an underlying emotional problem.
To claim/suggest you were not Christian
but state you were angry at God is simply denial. You were obviously always a believer, as no genuine atheist is angry at any god, as they have no belief in gods.
But redirecting the responsibility/ or onus for your anger you were able to shrug off this anger, which I suspect might have something to do with guilt over an issue, perhaps?
Whatever it was, you allowed yourself to fully believe.
And I note you did not provide any evidence to support a single claim.
Collins was at least honest enough to admit it was his chronic death anxiety while working with terminally ill patients that was the final straw that pushed him to become a full on Christian.
But your experience very much mirrors so many conversion/born again stories.
In fact you will find they mirror such stories from people of pretty much every religion.
Speak to a Muslim or jew or Hindu.
Such declamation runs through them all.
But why exactly do you consider you need to be Christian instead of Muslim, Hindu or even Jainist?
No, I was absolutely NOT “always a believer” in Jesus Christ. I would never push that assertion on anyone and I’m disappointed you’re attempting this for me. 😦
I don’t need to supply any evidence for atheists, which you’ve told me you are. If people who are interested in spirituality ask me for evidence, I’ll be happy to supply it as well as point them to the two websites above.
In looking at our broken world, Christianity makes the most sense of all the faiths.
Yet, you stated you ”…. spent the better part of five years near the boiling point and it was all directed at God.”
If you were not a believer at this point how on earth could you be angry at something you had no belief in?
It seems obvious you were already a believer and were perhaps having a drawn-out crisis of faith, perhaps?
Your refusal to offer the evidence which convinced you, or the reason why you returned to faith suggests you have little or no confidence in it, and maybe even doubt its veracity.
This again suggests lingering unresolved issues at some level.
What do you, personally, understand by the term ”broken world”?
Christianity makes the most sense to YOU, but then, you were likely brought up in a Westernized (Christian) culture.
If you were born and raised in Saudi or Pakistan what religion do you think you would honestly likely have adopted?
C’mon; you’re not stupid. Surely you know that belief in an indifferent, distant creator force is a world away from belief in Jesus Christ.
I read newspapers, I watch TV news, I listen to radio news. So I know this world is broken.
I have no idea what faith I may or may not have adopted if I lived elsewhere. I’ll rely on thinkers like you to tell me that. 🙂
Agreed, I am not stupid. This is why I I asked what you understand by ” …. broken world.”
As you read and watch the news etc what exactly are you referring to?
You grew up in a Westernized and largely Christian environment/culture.
What sort of cultural attitudes would you likely have been raised with had you been born in Saudi Arabia of Saudi parents for example?
Again I write: you are not stupid; almost everyone who reads or watches the news will agree that this world is horribly broken. Do I really need to explain beyond this?
I imagine if either one of us was raised in Saudi Arabia, we’d likely have Saudi values. Would that mean you would be a Muslim?
P.S. My parents took me and my two siblings to mass until we were 16, when they gave us a choice about whether to continue. We said no – and so did they.
To this day, I’m the only follower of Jesus Christ in my family (I made my decision at age 42); I doubt any of my family members ever followed Him. I don’t recall us having even one spiritual conversation and I have no recollection of seeing a Bible in our home.
Yes, you most certainly do.
We are currently living at the most advanced period in our history and whether you acknowledge it or not, one of the most peaceful and productive.
Ironically, one of the worst current conflicts, the Syrian civil war, has at its roots, religion.
So, again, what do you mean by broken?
Yes! Of course
(Wiki) The cultural setting of Saudi Arabia is Arab and Islam.
But you attended Mass until you were sixteen, so you had a cultural grounding in Christianity.
Whatever the traumatic event was that occurred at 42 it was enough for you to beleive you needed ”saving” and thus, you turned to the religion you were grounded in – Christianity.
Sorry to disappoint you; there was absolutey NO “traumatic event” to turn me to faith in Christ. The stereotype that this is the only way for an adult to become a Christian is sad and very wrong.
So you’d be a Muslim in Saudi Arabia? You’d follow Islam?
The Syrian civil was has a LUST FOR POWER and horrible, violent corruption at its roots, no matter what any critic of “religion” says.
As for our world, I refuse to wear rose-coloured glasses. I will not live in a la-la-land ‘reality’ that denies the sobering truth of:
– Horrific human trafficking
– A never-ending migrant crisis
– Sickening culturally approved violence against women
– Infanticide in countries where having girls is seen as bad
– Turning a blind eye to spawning terrorism in service to the almighty dollar (and oil – see Saudi Arabia)
– Six hundred million people who still don’t have access to safe drinking water (if you don’t believe me, please look it up)
– A culture that ruthlessly protects the “right” to own handguns that are chiefly used to kill people…do I really need to continue? Do I?
Many centuries of human “progress” have shown us, time and time again, that there’s only one way out of all this: Jesus Christ. He transforms hearts and minds. And that changes entire cultures.
One more thing: As I’ve so often written about in Frank’s Cottage, I want absolutely NOTHING to do with “religion”. No. Thank. You. 🙂
You were angry for five years – angry at god. Your words.
That is not traumatic?
If someone was angry at anyone or any thing this would most definitely have traumatic effects.
And it certainly came across as a serious emotional issue.
Raised by Muslim parents, I imagine anyone would, as are most people. Hence it is a Muslim country.
Yes, there are many problems.
But we haven’t had anything like the massive flu epidemics that killed tens of millions.
Human trafficking was part and parcel of Christianity for centuries. Slavery was built in.
Most institutional violence against girls and women including female circumcision is found in countries that are heavily religiously fundamentalist.
On saying this there are fewer wars, and most of the acts of terrorism have religion in there somewhere.
Yes, Syria also has greed and self interest and corruption as part of the causes, but they are being fought by different Islamic sects.
Vacines and medical advances have eradicated a great many diseases and the Gates foundation believes it will have a cure for cancer in the not too distant future.
Secular humanist societies are more peaceful than almost every other society and the ones with the most problems are heavily religious, be they Christian Muslim or Hindu.
As a Jesus follower you are,like it or not, religious.
Billy Graham was an evangelical preacher and you are part of that relgious foundation .
You can’t hide from this fact.
Thanks for your comments. Your idea of “traumatic” apparently has very little to do with my idea. It’s not like I ever, EVER walked around spitting and cursing God every time another human being came near me. Sheesh….
As for all the things you blame on “religion”, I’m absolutely in agreement. Religion is a scourge that I hope disappears. And if you want to call me religious, that’s not my concern. I know the truth – and the truth has set me free! 🙂
Once again, we’ve reached an impasse, so this conversation is finished. I truly hope people open to spirituality will carefully read the blog and this conversation, then think about this life and the life to come. It’s far, far more important than our culture suggests. 🙂